“Iran talks about its nuclear program with the ‘5+1′ group [the five permanent members of the UN Security Council plus Germany] but not with the Arabs. Why is this so?” asked Moussa, who is widely known in Egypt, the Arab world and internationally.
In an exclusive interview with Today’s Zaman at his office in Cairo, Moussa stated that the nuclear issue was an important one in the region, adding that there should have been regional debates and talks between Iran and the Arab countries.
“There should be an initiative which Egypt would lead, the Gulf countries would participate in and Turkey would help,” said Moussa.
Moussa spoke about several issues ranging from Arab revolutions to Turkey’s regional role, from Egypt’s foreign relations and Egyptian-Turkish relations to the Syrian crisis and the Palestinian issue.
Excerpts from the interview with Moussa are as follows:
How would you assess the revolution in Egypt?
The revolution has taken place and Egypt has changed, no matter what happens. With the result of the elections, the (Muslim) Brotherhood came to power not with a revolutionary trend but with a new Islamic trend. It is not only Egypt, but the whole Arab world that is heading towards change. Change is the name of the game. There is no going back or keeping the situation as it is. Change is going to take place and is going to succeed.
Do you believe the revolution is over or still ongoing in Egypt?
We can say that process has come to an end and another process is taking place but the spirit, the ambiance, the atmosphere and the feeling of the revolution is still there and will continue to be there. Anything that brings us back to the same old practices will be unacceptable. Any process that creates a dictator will be unacceptable. A democratic process is the way and the route for the future.
How do you assess Western support for the revolution?
At first the West was full of support and admiration, and they had the intention to help. Then confusion emerged, not just among Western powers but within Egypt between the Muslim Brotherhood and younger revolutionaries. But regardless of this confusion, I think the West has an important responsibility to help the democratic process move forward.
What is your view towards the West?
When I was a presidential candidate, I said that if I was elected, one of the first things that I would do is apply for eventual membership in the EU. After applying for membership, Turkey experienced positive changes which helped it a lot. Although I know we are not Europeans and don’t have any link to Europe, I wanted Egypt to experience the same. Turkey has the opportunity to claim that they are the part of Europe, but we don’t have this right. That is why I underlined the term “eventual membership” and not full membership.
‘Turkey is a welcomed country in the Middle East’
How would you assess Turkey’s regional role?
Turkey is an important and a welcomed country in the Middle East. Its soft power is a very powerful instrument. We see no reason for any friction between Turkey and Egypt or between Turkey and the changing Arab world. Of course, there are some basic points that have to be taken into account when assessing the position of Turkey in the region. First is Turkey’s position and policy vis-à-vis the Palestinian question and the Hezbollah question. Second is its position towards regional security in the Middle East. Third is its position vis-à-vis change in the Arab world, including Syria. Fourth is the position of Turkey vis-à-vis the other Arab problems including the Kurdish question, Arab-Iranian relations, etc. There are certain problems that Turkey, as an important country in the region, has to deal with.
What can Turkey and Egypt do together to bring stability to the Middle East?
I believe that both countries can do a lot. This requires a strategic understanding. We have to cooperate on several issues including the Arab-Israeli conflict, regional security, change in the Arab world and how to deal with problems of Shia and Sunni Muslims. So there are lots of issues that require our cooperation. But until now, [the] states have not benefited from such a strong cooperation. I believe that cooperation must be one of the priorities of both countries.
‘Turkey-Egypt relations is not a zero sum game’
It seems that Egypt is regaining its old regional role after the revolution. So what are Egypt’s expectations of Turkey?
Turkey and Egypt should cooperate. There must be an understanding that when Egypt advances, this should not be considered as the reducing of Turkey’s role. It is not a zero sum game. There is a lot for both of countries to work together [on].
Turkey treats all the factions in Egypt as equal. So what is your message to Turkish politicians?
I would insist that Egypt is one society and that relations between Turkey and Egypt should be addressed to Egyptian society as a whole. Egypt is a friend and a brother country to Turkey. Turkey should address not only one or two factions but all the factions in Egypt.
Do you think there will be a change in Egypt’s foreign policy with Mohamed Morsi becoming president?
First of all, Egypt’s traditional foreign policy line has to be updated because we are living in a different era. We are not in the first decade of the same century or in the ‘90s so there must be a change and update in our foreign policy. Secondly, the traditional and the basic tenets of foreign policy will remain the same, at least for a period of time. Egypt, in the last five years before the toppling of former President Hosni Mubarak, had a very lazy foreign policy with no leadership, so this will change. There will be drastic changes which will be based on modernizing and updating its policies. Egypt needs to take a relook of its foreign policy.
In this respect, how do you see Egypt’s relations with the US?
I always believed in the necessity of having good relations with the US. I don’t believe in the wisdom of having bad relations between Egypt and America. I believe that a peaceful, intelligent and well-built policy will give Egypt the freedom to say: “Yes, I agree with you, Mr. US,” or “No, I disagree with you, Mr. US.”
After the film incident, US President Barack Obama stated that the US “would [not] consider [Egypt] an ally, but we don’t consider them an enemy.” This is a very important statement that requires serious consideration. What does this mean? Does it mean a downgrading of relations? Or was it voicing concern about relations? I prefer the second option. Morsi is supposed go to New York this month. I read that he will be visiting Washington, D.C., in December. I hope he will take this matter up himself with the US president.
Morsi’s statement in Tehran sends an important message to Iran. How will relations with Iran be in the new era?
Egypt has its own independent policy based on its own interests and connections. Iran is a special case. Iran is a country in the Middle East; we are going to live together with Iran until the end of life. Iran is a Muslim nation and is a member of the Islamic community. So we are supposed to be on the same side. Egyptians and Iranians have been interacting for a long time. So there is an opportunity for improving relations, but the fact is that there are lots of serious problems currently between Arab countries and Iran. Egypt is an Arab country; it cannot take a position contrary to the common Arab interest and the general consensus among Arab nations. That is why when I was the foreign minister, I suggested to the president at the time that we should start talking to Iranians and listen to each other in order to rebuild relations. But this suggestion didn’t work.
When I was the Arab League secretary-general, I also proposed forming a collective dialogue between the Arab League and Iran to put everything on the table and see what could be changed. With Iranians, we share a different view on the Palestinian issue and the way which it should be solved. We share a different view on the Arab-Israeli conflict. We believe in the Arab Initiative and they don’t. We believe in a political solution, but I don’t think they agree. There are some policies that we agree on, but we disagree on two key issues, which is the Arab-Israeli conflict and the way the Palestinian question is considered.
If we are talking about regional security, we cannot neglect Iran. But at the same time, we side fully with the United Arab Emirates over the issue of the disputed islands. We fully agree with Bahrain and that its sovereignty should be protected through a peaceful solution. So there are lots of issues ranging from regional security to political and sovereignty issues that we need to discuss together.
‘There must be a sovereign Palestinian state’
What will Egypt’s relations with Israel be like in the new era?
I have said more than once after the revolution that Egypt should continue with the Arab Initiative. Secondly, our peace treaty with Israel will and should continue. Thirdly, security policies should be revised taking into consideration the security of the Sinai Peninsula. Fourthly, there must be a Palestinian state, a sovereign state, in the West Bank and Gaza with Jerusalem as its capital. This is our position.
What can Egypt do to help reconcile Al-Fatah and Hamas?
Egypt can do a lot, and we need the help of everyone to achieve this reconciliation because this is the worst crisis that the Palestinians [have faced since] after the occupation of their territory. Division or confrontation among Palestinians will result in a total failure.
‘Major powers are reluctant over Syrian crisis’
There is an Egyptian initiative which brings together Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Turkey to find a solution for the Syrian crisis. What else can be done for this? Do you believe this initiative will work?
There is a lot to be done, but until now there is reluctance among the major powers to impose a solution for the crisis. Sometimes I think that they don’t have any real policy towards the Syrian crisis. We will see. There are still lots of question marks regarding the crisis. This situation involves Arabs, Syria’s neighbors, including Turkey, and the bigger powers. It includes lots of conflicting interests, which has created a big confusion.
‘My future plan is to take part in politics’
Are you planning for a political role in the future?
I plan to continue in the political scene and to form my own political base. Egyptians need to rebuild their country physiologically, politically, economically and socially. These are the issues that need the contribution of all those who believe that they can contribute positively to the post-revolution era and to Egypt’s future. I want to emphasize that my policy will be to stop drifting to the past and instead move forward towards the future while maintaining and protecting the basic tenets of our principles and our identities, all the while keeping in mind who we are. We have to know our background and deep culture, which has a certain peculiarity. But we have to always remember that we belong to the 21st century and that this revolution belongs to this century too.
So you are planning to take part in politics in the future?
Indeed. That is my intention. I am in touch with political parties, political personalities, the unions, media and others.
How is the process going?
It is promising. Everyone believes that we need a coalition and we need a consensus for the future. We need a wise and peaceful opposition. We need to protect democracy, the civil state and our identity in a proper way. So people need those leaders and politicians who can achieve these aims in particular. We are all on the same ship, and we have to move forward together.
‘Democracy not only for West, but for all’
Western media have said democracy does not suit the Arab world. Do you believe that Egypt is ready for democracy?
Yes, indeed. I believe that the Western media [and] Western circles are absolutely wrong. I wonder why they said so, since it was they who called for democratic change in the Arab world. When the Arab world started to change, we started hearing from some circles that the Arab world was not ready for change. This is a big contradiction. It is a very contradictory way of viewing things. No, democracy is not for Western countries only, it is for all. Egypt was the first democratic country in this region starting from the end of the 19th century. So Egyptians understand democracy; we know what it means. It is not unknown to us; it is only figuring out how to create respect for human rights, fundamental freedoms, independence of the judiciary and rights for women. We understand all these. The change might take time. But once we are on the right track, things will go in the right direction. It will be sooner but not later. I reject whoever says that Egypt or the Arab world is not ready for democracy or that democracy does not fit the Arab world.
Profile
Moussa served as the secretary-general of the Arab League, a 22-member forum representing Arab states, from 2001 to 2011. Prior to his Arab League post, Moussa served in the Egyptian government as minister of foreign affairs from 1991 to 2001. In 1990, he was promoted to permanent representative of Egypt to the UN. Moussa was among the many Arab and international diplomats who tried to resolve the Lebanon War (1975–1990). He is an extremely popular political figure in Egypt due to his criticism of Israeli policies towards Gaza and the West Bank. He was once described by TIME magazine as the most popular public servant in the Arab world, and his name was even included in a song by Egyptian pop star Shaaban Abdel Rahim, the chorus of which proclaimed: “I hate Israel but I love Amr Moussa.” Following the toppling of the Mubarak regime, he officially announced his candidacy in the presidential elections.
(Today’s Zaman)
